StarCraft® II

Ask nGen anything!

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Mainly nGenMaSteR / nGenJazbas will answer most of the questions! :)
(Other nGen - members might come along as well)
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We will provide replays that are related to your questions if possible too vs high tier players.
Edited by nGenJazBas on 1/9/2011 1:04 AM PST
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how did you join ngen?

how were you recruited?

just curious
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Posts: 647
Wouldn't it be better to post this is general discussion?

I got a question on how to hold off a terran marine tank push. I find it very difficult to hold off/break the contain. Do you need roaches? Since I usually defend it with sling/blings only.
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Do you like escargots?
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What is a good counter for early roach/mass roach for each respective races?
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@ceebs
You will have to talk to nGenMaSteR.
He is responsible for any recruitment. All members had their tests (minimum 1game, maximum 3 games).

@ILoveCoffee
Um.. we actually posted this up here to help zergs out lol. MaSteR and I are both Zergs.

Tank rine push is the standard of TvZ these days and its very strong.
What I do mostly vs Tankrine is that as tankrine doesn't moveout as fast as MMM ball, I mass expand, and tech hive pretty quick (around 15~16min mark). If you see tankrine push really fast, just engage and surround them with slingbling and you should be fine.
Once hive is done, get 4~6 broodlords to force vikings and push the tank line back and tech switch to ultras. By going broodlords, you will force vikings, hence less medivacs and less rauders and tanks to counter ultralisks.

@Cynical
Well excuted Tankrine counters almost all Zs unit composition. Early roach harrass should be dealt easy with Terran with their bunkers and tanks with scv repairs. Once you stop 1~2 early roach aggression, you don't even need to attack and can just macro up as you will be so much ahead in economy
For Protoss, lots of ways to counter early roach aggression, a fast Void Ray, Immortals, or just mass sentries with stalkers + well placed forcefields and sim city.
ZvZ, it is kind of risky to go mutas vs early roach aggression because you might die early on.
Speeding expo into roachs counters early roachs very well. Because roaches are very slow, they will take time to get to your base. You can also slow them down even more with ling fake or base attack and while your opponent is walking to your base, you make roaches in your base to fend off your opponents.

Hope I helped. Ask anything more.

Just to note, don't laugh at my English please lol
Edited by nGenJazBas on 1/9/2011 1:55 AM PST
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Lol I was hoping you guys would start this thread! TY! I suck at this game and will continue to until I learn to multitask sufficiently... I try and macro hard and get early 3rds and 4ths going if I can... however I always find if i concentrate on droning expanding and some scouting etc... I fail to harass... Ive been matched up with a few plats and some diamonds and they all said " you need to harras more." Ok so I let T or P set the trend and harras them with a few mutas... and my macro lets go like this...

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/126004-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station

I knew he was 4 gating.. but he pulled back when i threw down spines in a frenzy... when harrasing I let my money soar... then spammed units... also forgot upgrades till last minute etc. I had to go muta to trash his economy or he would have owned me! nearly screwed me over pulling back and expanding... XD

I dont often us alot of mutas because I rarely vs terran on ladder and vs toss i generally go roach hydra corrupter like I did vs this toss.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/126005-1v1-protoss-zerg-lost-temple

little harras... focus on macro even though my macro is not very good... reason is i fail at multitasking... How do I improve this... obviously practise but any other advice?
Edited by TcaTX on 1/9/2011 2:02 AM PST
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@ceebs

how did you join ngen?

how were you recruited?

just curious


I have 1st formed nGen with a few passionate players of SC2, to help each other practise, and have a fun social in SC2.

The 1st members of nGen were mostly my frds, but as I played SC2 quite srsly, I needed very good practise partners, and after a while many good players have joined nGen.

Current requirement to join nGen is 'recommendation from nGen member to have a test'
Edited by nGenMaSteR on 1/9/2011 2:17 AM PST
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01/09/2011 1:53 AMPosted by nGenJazBas
@Cynical
Well excuted Tankrine counters almost all Zs unit composition. Early roach harrass should be dealt easy with Terran with their bunkers and tanks with scv repairs. Once you stop 1~2 early roach aggression, you don't even need to attack and can just macro up as you will be so much ahead in economy
For Protoss, lots of ways to counter early roach aggression, a fast Void Ray, Immortals, or just mass sentries with stalkers + well placed forcefields and sim city.
ZvZ, it is kind of risky to go mutas vs early roach aggression because you might die early on.
Speeding expo into roachs counters early roachs very well. Because roaches are very slow, they will take time to get to your base. You can also slow them down even more with ling fake or base attack and while your opponent is walking to your base, you make roaches in your base to fend off your opponents.


I see.... I don't like getting void rays might try the sentry/stalker thing.

So in ZvZ "more lings" aren't gonna solve the problems huh? I guess theres no avoiding it I have to make roaches of my own then sigh. The muta thing is too risky for me.... Thanks for the answer!
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Is Roach / Hydra (and possibly Infestor) a viable alternative to Muta / Ling / Bling vs Terran? I'm so tired of doing that every Z v T. I haven't had the chance to give it much of a go, being a random player.
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@TcaTX
I watched both.
I gotta say 2nd game was played much better than your 1st game.

With your first game, your utilisation of units(muta and sling harrass) was very nice. You knew where to harrass when to harrass.
With your second game, you reacted to opponents build very nicely and was macroing up nicely aswell, gettin your upgrades going, droning up etc.

Generally speaking, your builds, understanding of counters to opponents builds were very nice and I could tell you had good understanding of the game.

A thing that can improve you that I have noticed was that with 1st game I noticed that your queens were at very high energy, saying your larva inject wasn't as good. It resulted in your resources floating high.
Also, try add in 1 or 2 drones in prodution just like Terran or Protoss.

You have the understanding of the game. I think it's just practice that will bring your game up to very high level. Just the very mechanical stuff like queen injecs, adding in few drones, etc.

Btw, your ZvP build is almost exactly the same as mine lol
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How do you beat 4Orb Command?
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@Cynical
Lings are very cost INefficient vs roaches so yea they are not the right counter vs roaches. Vs small number of roaches its fine but once its massed up.. especially with +1 attack, they 2 shot lings.

@Emerald
I personally don't like roaches or hydras in ZvT. But some people seems fine to use roach infestors vs Terran. But I havn't seen much of Hydras in ZvTs

Roachling Bling and few infestors can be the alternative of Mutaling bling I guess. But always remember to tech up to hive at some stage because it is really hard to "finish" the game with t2 once Terran gets their 3rd base up.
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@Famous
Um.. either lingbling all in, or mass expo since they won't be able to harrass you.
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01/09/2011 2:22 AMPosted by nGenJazBas
@Cynical
Lings are very cost INefficient vs roaches so yea they are not the right counter vs roaches. Vs small number of roaches its fine but once its massed up.. especially with +1 attack, they 2 shot lings.


Yeah I learned that the hard way sadly...

Edit: thanks
Edited by Cynical on 1/9/2011 2:37 AM PST
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Thank you JazBas! Much appreciated! I'll keep practicing!
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01/09/2011 2:22 AMPosted by nGenJazBas
@Emerald
I personally don't like roaches or hydras in ZvT. But some people seems fine to use roach infestors vs Terran. But I havn't seen much of Hydras in ZvTs

Roachling Bling and few infestors can be the alternative of Mutaling bling I guess. But always remember to tech up to hive at some stage because it is really hard to "finish" the game with t2 once Terran gets their 3rd base up.


haha I was going to ask a follow-up question pretty much asking if there was any alternative to Mutalingbling, so thanks!
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No worries to you all :D
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01/09/2011 2:38 AMPosted by Emerald
01/09/2011 2:22 AMPosted by nGenJazBas
@Emerald
I personally don't like roaches or hydras in ZvT. But some people seems fine to use roach infestors vs Terran. But I havn't seen much of Hydras in ZvTs

Roachling Bling and few infestors can be the alternative of Mutaling bling I guess. But always remember to tech up to hive at some stage because it is really hard to "finish" the game with t2 once Terran gets their 3rd base up.


haha I was going to ask a follow-up question pretty much asking if there was any alternative to Mutalingbling, so thanks!


mutas are almost essential nowadays, not for harrass or unit mix.. u need mutas to kill medivacs... w/o mutas u will find VERY hard to defend drop harrass by T, so nowadays u can see many Z tech to spire early but not actually get mutas until u see banshees or medivacs, they get more units and more upgrades instead of investing on mutas, in early mid games. usually good upgrade ling/blings are very good counter marine tank push.

tip: in maps like xelnaga, if T slowly pressure u with placing tanks on wach tower, then go around, straight into their main or natural, not their army or 3rd 'PF'.
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