StarCraft® II

Ask nGen anything - Protoss Edition

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nGenMaster and nGenJazbas has created a thread to help fellow SEA community zergs out by answering any SC2 related question they may have. I will be doing the same for this thread. Please ask away if you have any questions. I will try to answer them all. If I don't answer your questions please understand I am only human and therefor am prone to mental lapses.
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can you help me find a counter for a 1-1-1 type of push from terran...

usually consists of marines a few banshees and a raven, i believe its a timed attack during mid game... my problem is that PDDs prevent stalkers from being effective... sentries get picked off by banshees... i usually lose to this type of attack
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When you scout Techlab Starport, drop a Stargate immediately and produce a phoenixes to counter the Raven/Banshee/PDD. The attack usually comes with a huge load of scvs and marines, in which A TON of zealots and some sentries will hold. If you also scout a techlab factory with Tanks, make a few immortals too. Precision micro is required to beat this type of attack. When the Terran engages, make sure you have zealots in the front, sentries/immortals behind, phoenix swooping from the side to take the air/lift tanks. If you do have a few stalkers, they should be completely out of harms way at the very back (Try to limit their numbers as much as possible).

If you scout a 1-1-1 with no CC being made, DO NOT expand.


Summary:
Zealot, Sentry > Marines
Immortal > Tank
Phoenixes > PDD, Banshee, Raven


A note on Stalkers: Stalkers are great units because they are really mobile and versatile. However, remember they are classified as "support" units and aren't really good head on fighters. They do nice damage to armoured if they have zealots/guardian shield to tank, but they are ridiculously cost inefficient when used as a standstill shooter(especially when there is a Raven present) - what they are when defending against a Terran all-in.


I emphasize - A TON OF ZEALOTS
Edited by nGenLight on 1/17/2011 11:05 PM PST
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I was waiting for a Protoss edition, kudos :)

As for my question; I'm struggling in my PvZ match-ups; I just don't know how to apply decent pressure to throw them off (assuming they're going for a pool -> hatch opening).

I usually try to 3gate expand against Zerg who do the above opening; however find myself being overwhelmed by a massive amount of either zerglings and/or roaches; or both. Often I'll go for a 3gate robo; but do find eventually I'm outnumbered by again, roaches and/or zerglings.

The only real success I have against the Zerg I'm facing these days (gold/plat) is when I opt for an aggressive 4gate to punish them for an early expansion.

Any tips you have that might help me be more confident in my PvZ would be greatly appreciated ;)
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You seem like you have some experience in 3gate FEing, than this link will help you tremendously.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182108

Goodluck.
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<blockquote data-quote="1054312971"><div>Posted by nGenLight</div>When you scout Techlab Starport, drop a Stargate immediately and produce a phoenixes to counter the Raven/Banshee/PDD. The attack usually comes with a huge load of scvs and marines, in which A TON of zealots and some sentries will hold. If you also scout a techlab factory with Tanks, make a few immortals too. Precision micro is required to beat this type of attack. When the Terran engages, make sure you have zealots in the front, sentries/immortals behind, phoenix swooping from the side to take the air/lift tanks. If you do have a few stalkers, they should be completely out of harms way at the very back (Try to limit their numbers as much as possible).







If you scout a 1-1-1 with no CC being made, DO NOT expand.











Summary:



Zealot, Sentry > Marines



Immortal > Tank



Phoenixes > PDD, Banshee, Raven











A note on Stalkers: Stalkers are great units because they are really mobile and versatile. However, remember they are classified as "support" units and aren't really good head on fighters. They do nice damage to armoured if they have zealots/guardian shield to tank, but they are ridiculously cost inefficient when used as a standstill shooter(especially when there is a Raven present) - what they are when defending against a Terran all-in.











I emphasize - A TON OF ZEALOTS</blockquote>



thanks for the tip. a follow up question, what would be the best build for this? I usually go 3 gate robo for detection. any start up build suggestions?
Edited by ThreeLilPigs on 1/17/2011 11:53 PM PST
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Gate
Gas
Core
Gas
Zealot
Sentry
Robo
Gate
Sentry
Ob - Use this for your information as what to do next, expand, all-in, extra gates, stargate etc.
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Posted by nGenLight
Gate

Gas

Core

Gas

Zealot

Sentry

Robo

Gate

Sentry

Ob - Use this for your information as what to do next, expand, all-in, extra gates, stargate etc.


Thank you very much...
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^NP, You might want to get an Immortal out before the Ob just in case the Terran does a little SCV + few infantry timing attack.

Also: 3Chronos should be used for probes at the start, and rest of the chrono goes into warpgates, save 25 for when Robo is done.
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Please let me know if what I have contributed on this thread have helped you succeed in your future games! It would make me doing this far more easier.
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Im currently sitting on plat and desperately trying to get to diamond so thanks for the heads up. i currently have a lot of holes in my game so you have definitely contributed. any replays you might suggest to improve my learning curve.

and whats your take on the current pro scene. not a single toss player was able to make it in the current GSL.
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Is there any option in PvP besides 4 Gate? I've noticed you can get away with 3 Gate Robo on occasion, but it is very tight.
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01/17/2011 11:02 PMPosted by nGenLight
Precision micro is required to beat this type of attack.


Is there a Terran attack which doesn't require precision micro to beat? :)


As for a question, is there any reliable build you use to beat 4gate that doesn't require going 4gate yourself? Any time I try and work robo into a build when my opponent goes for a 4gate attack it always comes down to a micro battle at my ramp and eventually it just ends with me not having enough units to hold the attack off.
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Hey can you teach me to 4 gate, i can't win games and it seems to work for you alot

Thanks!
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I would offer requests for replays but I'm afraid that may take way too much time for me to handle. I guess just keep playing, keep mimicking the pro players and try to understand why they are doing something when they do it, if you really don't understand, I might be able to help you here.

Current take on the meta-game... Fairly balanced, Zerg may be a little weak to timing attacks at the moment but that is mainly because of crappy maps and close position spawns. Each race has their advantages and disadvantages. MC was the one who really understood that Protoss should not always be played as turtle-toss or 1 base toss(Hong-un prime), but more of a unpredictable, dynamic race that Protoss is. However the recent Jinro mech build thrashing of MC is a bit worrysome because I can't figure out how to efficiently stop that unit composition at that timing on the top of my head.
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Light is awesome everyone listen to him!
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Emerald, FadeCarbon: It depends what type of 4 gate you are talking about. If you are talking about the fastest and hardest kind of 4 gate which hits your ramp at 5:45 with 6 stalkers and 1 zealot (1 Gas and probe cut at 18 or 20). You almost have to go 1 gas 4 gate yourself to stop this, with the obvious defenders advantage. DO NOT make more than 1 sentry, as they are weak and 1-2 FF for splitting is plenty.

If you are talking about the later 2 gas 4 gate, then good forcefield to split units, good positioning off 2/3 gate robo can stop it.

On your other point Carbon, Protoss is a race that heavily rewards very precise, decisive micro decisions like FF, Storm, Blink, Army formation, etc. However, Terran's micro is far more physically intense (especially infantry) and has the highest effiency. That said, one or two good timely forcefields or gravitational beams can break everything, that is the power of Protoss.


TAEdge: Knowing when and how to 4gate to punish a greedy opponent is really important. The difference between a Master level player going 4 gate and a gold level player going 4 gate is that one knows exactly why he is doing it to counter exactly what build the enemy is doing whilst the other is just doing it blindly in hopes for a victory, with Zerg usually being the victim.

Interestingly, I find 4gating a Terran to take much more skill than 4gating a Zerg. But I'm sure you already know that ;)
Edited by nGenLight on 1/18/2011 1:09 AM PST
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nGenLight is too kind.
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Community Manager
I approve of this immensely.
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Thanks so much for the support, sweeties!
Edited by nGenLight on 1/18/2011 1:36 AM PST
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