StarCraft® II

@AZKblend
That unit composition is most basic unit comp in TvT.. There are not much of counters in TvT. Well there is for certain builds but tank/marine/marauder is the most safest build. You could try banshee harrass in early game then transition into tank rines, but it really comes down to positioning/microing

@caparosmith
I wouldn't use marine marauder push cos map dist is so long, especially with stim nerf.
I would still suggest basic marine tank play.. theres not many other styles out there.
Theres MKP style pure marine, harrassing non-stop strat.. but this is v micro intensive and Z gets use to it.
Also it's very important to pressure Z continously so they r forced to make baneilings instead of mutas. orelse they will get 20-30mutas out as you said and harrass you like crazy

@SeaR
It is really hard atm for T to win late game. But, you don't just sit there and go late game. I mean you gotta harrass and give some dmg to their econ or something. That way, Terran CAN win in late game if lucky. I suggest you just go 1base all in, late game atm is bit hard for Terran. Not unwinnable, but hard!

@AZKblend
That unit composition is most basic unit comp in TvT.. There are not much of counters in TvT. Well there is for certain builds but tank/marine/marauder is the most safest build. You could try banshee harrass in early game then transition into tank rines, but it really comes down to positioning/microing

thx :D

@SeaR
It is really hard atm for T to win late game. But, you don't just sit there and go late game. I mean you gotta harrass and give some dmg to their econ or something. That way, Terran CAN win in late game if lucky. I suggest you just go 1base all in, late game atm is bit hard for Terran. Not unwinnable, but hard![/quote] Thx for ur advise =)

Hi Wild,

i agree that it is pretty hard for Terran in the late game. with our slow mobility, we will have problems defending expansions. as an excellent defensive race, will it be more suitable for terrans to turtle at end game?

i mean instead of spreading thin on defending multiple bases, with our lift off and build anywhere capabilities (including salvage), we relocate/build facilities every 2base in the late game so that we can cover it properly with our less mobile army and stationary defenses. And let our harassment potentials (reapers, drops, banshees, nukes, and hellions) do the damage till the opponent broke down?

forgive me that this is theoretical and can also lead to very long games. It is a matter of consuming the map with our bases, mineral nodes to mineral nodes at a time. Your opinion on this is highly appreciated.

@VboyZ
First, you can not lift off supply depot so there is problem.
And by lifing up everything, it means you can not produce anything while its flying over to other base so i think it's not that efficient.
If you really want to turtle around, spread out thinly and move certain amounts of units when they r coming for attk. To do so, you need some sensor tower + scans to locate enemy's army all the time. I mean, I can probably stay 30min+ against anyone if i just turtle up. But thing is, it's not like bw where you get 200food with 3/3 upgrade and then T autowins. T 200food ain't as strong as it was in BW. hmmm yea... so i think just turtling up won't win you the game especially when maps are so huge these days.

@VboyZ
First, you can not lift off supply depot so there is problem.
And by lifing up everything, it means you can not produce anything while its flying over to other base so i think it's not that efficient.
If you really want to turtle around, spread out thinly and move certain amounts of units when they r coming for attk. To do so, you need some sensor tower + scans to locate enemy's army all the time. I mean, I can probably stay 30min+ against anyone if i just turtle up. But thing is, it's not like bw where you get 200food with 3/3 upgrade and then T autowins. T 200food ain't as strong as it was in BW. hmmm yea... so i think just turtling up won't win you the game especially when maps are so huge these days.

Maybe my brood war days are still hanging at the back of my head. yeah, it is really different. brood war, you can just mass up and roll forward. oh man, i miss the goliath, the valkyrie, and the swiss knife science vessel.

Thanks Wild. i really am eager to improve my game a lot and be a good player but work and age is now creeping up :) this thread is really helpful.

@caparosmith
I wouldn't use marine marauder push cos map dist is so long, especially with stim nerf.
I would still suggest basic marine tank play.. theres not many other styles out there.
Theres MKP style pure marine, harrassing non-stop strat.. but this is v micro intensive and Z gets use to it.
Also it's very important to pressure Z continously so they r forced to make baneilings instead of mutas. orelse they will get 20-30mutas out as you said and harrass you like crazy

thanks for the advice. I had some success but again the spine crawlers get in the way.
Now im thinking about turtling up on 2 bases and going vikings/battlecruisers in the mid game against muta zerg on large maps. Would this be a viable strategy? ... it's time to try it out.

@caparosmith
I don't think it will work.
I don't think u can afford all vkings/bcs with 2base.
You could get some out, but eventually it will get defended easily.
TvZ theres nothing really you could do other than all-in builds if you don't like playing marine tank.
That's my thoughts, you should try it out tho.. testing new stuff is always good!

04/03/2011 1:31 PMPosted by nGenWild

TvZ theres nothing really you could do other than all-in builds if you don't like playing marine tank

Hi Wild how about mech play? Mech play is pretty decent in TvZ; the only bother is broodlords and ultras.

Btw Wild; what is your bo for mech play? do you go 15 orbital reactor factory hellion expand?

And also how is mech play for other matchups? i.e. TvT and TvP. IMO TvT viable seen Goody do it well. How about TvP? Is it any good?

Been losing alot to TvP any advice? I usually go 111 raven siege tank expand then revert to biomech. Losing to toss alot. Chargelots seems so powerful now.

@rockerb
Mech play comes down to which map you play.
You should know that it is really immobile and hard to stop when your opponent decides to go base trade or multi prompt attk.
So it really comes down to which map you play.
Mech play can be good in all three matchups.
BO for it also depends on map. If 1rax fe is possible, i would go 1rax fe then do whatever.

TvP.. most Ts are finding it hard these days.
I think MMM still works fine.. with decent upgrades.
But now, ppl likes to go for marine tank just like in tvz but with 1~2 raven.
I havn't been playing much these days so im not too sure how it's played out after the patch.
I've been playing random just for fun so yeaaaa..

Hi Wild
You are right about the battlecruisers being too expensive. I find that a better option on 2 bases is hunter seeker missile upgrade for ravens with marine, thor and viking support. I tried a build with 2 rax 1 factory 2 starports on 2 bases making marine, thor, vikings, a few ravens, and a few banshees and it was decent against speedlings, banelings and mass mutas, and using the raven's hunter seeker missile made this build much more effective when compared with using the point defense drone. I usually have about 4 ravens in the midgame.

How effective would this build be in the higher leagues? Im currently at silver league so I dont know if this build is good against zerg players who react fast enough to micro their mutas and banelings properly to avoid the missiles.

what is the weakness of Marrauder ball + viking + medivac ?? IT is just so hard to kill as a toss .

Im sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with my study t.t

@caparosmith
seeker missile is sthg that no1 uses because move speed of raven is so slow AND HSM itself is so slow and range of it is so short thus it is so hard to use it in high level of game.
tbh, in lower leagues, Terran is great race compare to other races.
Its the top league players where they find it hard to play.
I still think basic marine tank medivac is best unit comp in tvz.

@Moon
watch some of pro games.
Protosses are owning these days.

LOL , i did watch, but the ratio of PVT is 50/50 so hardly tell . I did go for MMM + viking and ghost , 3 -3 upgrade , but still got pawned by the toss that mass colossus , chargelot and blink stalker . something i just fell like 12 viking could kill a colossus fast enough , coz in replay, i saw most of T go just for 7-8 viking .

so are you T player? ~,~
when it becomes into big battle like that, it's about positioning, T player always wants to fight with good concave and with good emp landing on P's army. Doesn't mean that you will win tho, P can still attk move and win but rare with a good concave.
I reckon viking number should be x2.5~3 from colossus number.
oh, and getting 1~2 air weapon is nice as well.

well obviously i am not a T player . XD . I can only play 1 race , so that why I want to know about the race before i switch to ^^

Hey Wild

what are good Terran openers against Protoss and Zerg? Anddo u have any tips to give to a fellow Terran player like me?

Hi Wild

Is 3M with good upgrades viable against Z? I dont like tanks against Z because of its immobility. However if i dont play tanks its pretty hard for me to safely expand into natural. Any good BO or tips to implement 3m against Z? Currently i'm doing a 1 rax FE opening. I usually lift into natural once my drop is out. However smart Z's will counterattack during this timing and without tanks its hard for me to take my natural. Bunkers also take some fair amount of time to build.

is a 1 rax fe pure marines build viable for TvT, what are the scenarios to look out for..thanks

@BlitZWing
I suggest different kinds of macro builds, eg 1rax fe, 2rax fe.
Tip is to master 1build before u go onto next build.
otherwise you won't improve much.

@rockerb
pure bio does not work anymore in high level anywhere unless Z player was totally unware of it.
like i said before, tvz atm, T's best unit comp is rine tank atm and if you watch any pro games, that's the only unit comp u see in most of tvz.
I didn't like tank much but yea.. u gotta use to it.

@tFczealous
yea it still works, but you will have to add some tanks in late game.
1rax fe, you pretty have to be watch out for everything.
and when u get contained by opponent's tank, best thing is just to go base trade.
hmmmm idk there can be lot of scenarios, obviously i can't go all of it...
if you ask more specific, ill try to answer my best.