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8/10 bloody games I play now are against toss(ers). If I cant beat them early through early pressure, I loose - EVERYTIME.

I need some advice. FFS how the hell do you beat toss. They seem to macro soooo fast and I just cant keep up.

The only viable unit seems to be the roach against them - lings and hydras die to colossus in record time. Corruptors dont deal enough damage to take out the colossus fast enough. But roaches get split in half with force fields.

Is it just me or is this seriously one sided? It seems as if you need awesome coordination, near perfect unit combination and skill just to beat a bloody a-move force where they just spam forcefields - something a 5 year old can do.

It is getting to a point where I just leave the game when I see them having tonnes of stalkers and a few colossus as I know what's gonna happen.

I am desperate for some advice please... coz this is total bull**!! atm. It's like you need to be brilliant just to beat an idiot playing toss.

I feel u man. Please support this thread:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/119091924

Hopefully blizzard will do something about it

beat them under 10 mins. if you dun, you lose. once u see mass sentries, you can press f10. =)

04/01/2011 5:02 AMPosted by hiakz

beat them under 10 mins. if you dun, you lose. once u see mass sentries, you can press f10. =)

Cujo you will do no good listening to advice like this when you are in silver league. When you make your way to the top leagues you can decide for yourself if you think zvp is still unfair (many regard it as a tough matchup), but for now I'd guarantee 99% of your problems will go away with improved macro.

Maybe post some replays of matches you've had highlighting your problems for constructive criticism.

Silver to Gold league - 3roach-lings build is very effective to P and is very flexible for transition (if P tries to wall in with cannons). However, timing is very important in this build. You can search in the zerg discussion thread and/or maybe Jimmy's big bad list thread.

So far this is working fine for me.

zvp is unfair, period.

13pool/12gas is a pretty ok opening; it isn't optimal, but doesn't hurt u too much either. It also sets u up for 3roach+ling cheese. But u can easily cancel your roach warren if it gets scouted and expand while already getting ling speed. I typically do 13pool/12gas on smaller maps, but try to go hatch first on huge ass maps.

Also, 2-base baneling bust is god-like against forge expand. Example replay:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/157388-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le

Other than the above advice, i think 3gate expand into 6gate is imba as hell. Or 3gate expand into nix is imba as hell as well. Whenever i get harassed by nix, i feel its kind of like bad karma for me as i enjoy harassing terran with mutas.

Any form of protoss 1-base play is scary as hell as well (4gate, 3gaterobo), so if you poke his front with 4 lings at around 21 food and see he hasn't expanded, just cut your drones and make roaches. It doesn't matter what kind of 1-base play he is going for, i've died to 3gate council before which isn't even 4gate.

Also have 2 lings on seperate shift-click paths to scout for proxy stargates. Those HURT if not scouted.

I've yet to see anyone get a sizeable quantity of Ultra's against protoss mid to late game and I'd think they would take care of FF. I'm assuming they do the same thing as thors yeah? Early 4 gate pushes is the hard thing to combat but roaches with burrow might keep you alive long enough to tech to ultra's.

Being aggressive is the only way. Protoss wants to sit back and macro so they can get the death ball. Don't let it happen.

Nydus and Drops are a good way. Shame it's so costly.

That's my best advice... It's kind of a shame that the best counter to something is to not let it happen.

since when am i in the silver league? hmm...

04/01/2011 9:59 PMPosted by hiakz

since when am i in the silver league? hmm...

silver league english comprehension ability, yes

mutas are good vs late protoss

mutas mutas mutas mutas.

the one and only useful and important unit in zergs late game arsenal:) just dont get caught by storms.. if hes going for stargate build, he will go for pheonixes, in which case you build hydras and negate them, then push with roaches and hydras before he can tech switch to collossi and insta-win baby:)

>>>
- Roach / Hydra / Corrupter / Infestor [Vs.] Stalker / Colo Deathball.
- Ultra / Roach / Muta [Vs.] Stalkers / High templars.
- Baneling / Ultra / Hydra vs Void / Zealot.

If they 4 gate, bind alt+f4 to all your keys and hope to D/C before you witness the true power.

Learn to macro well and spread creep. Get used to what army composition handles what. Be aggressive with your harass/pressure, use drops to punish immobile P builds. Stop sitting in your base and trying to 1a at Protoss. That doesn't work - the design of P is a large, difficult to reinforce army. Good mutalisk usage on larger maps can also be extremely effective. If P is turtling up towards a tech army, take opportunities to kill off gas-heavy units or abuse the low unit count.

Practice against 4gate and other allins - when scouted, it should be a near freewin for you. Do not rely on cheesing, you will never improve.

PS: if your army just gets gutted by forcefields in a straight fight, what are you doing besides a-moving at P? Drop the bad mentality, losses at your level have nothing to do with balance.

Think u guys will love this game:

http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/replays/45293

infestor/muta/baneling/hydra vs stalker/archon

I find Mutas effectively keep Protoss honest in the long game. When I play ZvP as Protoss, Mutas are the most %*%*ed up things ever. Contain and go for Tier 3. A few frontline Ultras are great too to screw up his forcefields. But I personally prefer Broodlords.

In my experience as Zerg, the tricky part is surviving the initial Protoss 1-base Push. If you have a problem with Forcefields; he micros you gotta micro too, split your army, and pick the best spots to engage (i.e. cramped spaces are bad).

Really, in ZvP when I play Protoss I absolutely HATE Roaches coupled with lings especially when they know how and where to engage.

EDIT: I realize I just repeated all the other suggestions :p

I think from now until you get up to high PLat or Diamond, just focus on your macro, multitasking and holding off 4 gates ( get a Grand Master beg him to teach you how to hold off 4G, when and where to put spire crawler ect.). Macro is the backbone of Zerg, if you cant macro the game for early => mid game i dont think you cant manage Zerg late game. I admit that for now ZvP is pretty hard but at lower league i think things will be easier for Zerg ( you know, when Forcefield at lower level is not the best) Balance asides, just pratice and stay with the game, I guess.

04/02/2011 5:05 AMPosted by Drenick

I find Mutas effectively keep Protoss honest in the long game. When I play ZvP as Protoss, Mutas are the most %*%*ed up things ever. Contain and go for Tier 3. A few frontline Ultras are great too to screw up his forcefields. But I personally prefer Broodlords.

Yeah except opening phoenix shuts down spire play, and it also allows the toss to expand and transition into the ridiculous collossus void ray stalker ball, with a few immortals, which basically melts your entire army before you can get any decent DPS off.

04/02/2011 5:47 AMPosted by FaDeJoshboy

I find Mutas effectively keep Protoss honest in the long game. When I play ZvP as Protoss, Mutas are the most %*%*ed up things ever. Contain and go for Tier 3. A few frontline Ultras are great too to screw up his forcefields. But I personally prefer Broodlords.

Yeah except opening phoenix shuts down spire play, and it also allows the toss to expand and transition into the ridiculous collossus void ray stalker ball, with a few immortals, which basically melts your entire army before you can get any decent DPS off.

Not true, unless P keeps constant phoenix production up. A good example of this is SlayerS_Min vs oGsInca @ Tal'Darim Altar during GSTL. He scouts 2star play, simply goes into macro overdrive because phoenixes cannot actually kill you, then his muta count skyrockets. Phoenixes are not invincible.

The biggest problem with Mutas is getting a ball up without simply dying - bigger maps are good for this.

04/01/2011 7:33 AMPosted by dKiWi

Other than the above advice, i think 3gate expand into 6gate is imba as hell. Or 3gate expand into nix is imba as hell as well.

Why do people keep thinking this way? Not much way to deny a 3Gate expand but 6Gate isn't as scary as you people say it to be. Burrow just totally denies that Forcefield play because a 6Gate timing attack doesn't have a Robo for detection. If he delays the attack and go for Observer, that gives you ample time to prepare. Just don't get greedy and over-drone, sacrifice Overlord to scout or get Overseer. By the way, someone should start micro-ing Roaches like Blink Stalkers, except you burrow them.

04/02/2011 7:55 AMPosted by nGenXeen

A good example of this is SlayerS_Min vs oGsInca @ Tal'Darim Altar during GSTL.

SlayerS_Min is so good. One of the underdogs I'm looking forward to watch. SlayerS_MMA, SlayerS_Ryung, all so goooooood!

IMO, this ZvP issue is very much like the old PvT issues where Protoss whines so much about Marauders. Now what happens? Terrans finding difficulty dealing with Protoss even though Marauders weren't touched. <-Happened before Stim buildtime nerf.

In due time, Zerg will find a way to play against Protoss with the help of a few balance patches. IMO, JulyZerg's playstyle is what will be popular in the future.

Other than Collosus, I think ZvP is pretty much fine. That being said, Collosus appears like so much in ZvPs L-O-L. Buffing Corruptors attack range a little may help in sniping Collosus like Vikings do?