Topic
Countering Early DTs (Bronze)
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I'm in the Bronze level and I just encountered an opponent that went early DTs. Even though I scouted it, I couldn't stop it because my opponent either had a pylon in my base through the smoke warping them in (my mistake), or that he dropped them. They killed my Lair and I killed them after it was too late. Is early DTs a good strategy, and will I see it often? To counter do I just make detection and use normal units?
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Yes. If you had a Lair, an Overseer is just 17 seconds away. I'd say you lost because you didn't scout properly.
How on earth did they kill your Lair before you morphed an Overseer? Did he have like 10? |
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Spam zerglings and run into the opponent's base and destroy everything before he does the same thing to you.
Thats how I lost :P |
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in my opinion there is no such thing as early DT's. Last game i played where the opponent went DT's straight up i had my third base by the time he had 6 of them.
Against protoss there is absolutely no excuse for not having 1 overseer per base and one per group of units you have in the field. Protoss scouting is based on observers and you must deny them this, so have overseers as soon as they are available. Every time my opponent uses DTs on me its a fail, not because i was expecting them or scouted the dark temple, but simply because i have detection everywhere expecting observers. Lately ill have 1-2 hydralisks on a patrol around each hatchery with an seer set to guard them, that way if an observer is seen its dead. Just remember that DT's are bloody expensive, fragile units. In my view of all the things a toss can spend gas on i would prefer it was DT's. Their defense is their cloaking, besides that they might as well be made of glass. |
Yes. If you had a Lair, an Overseer is just 17 seconds away. I'd say you lost because you didn't scout properly. Since DTs are melee units they hug the Lair when they attack it, so my Lings can't block them from attacking or surround them. They kill stuff really quickly so he ended up killing my Lair before I killed the DTs. He had 5 - 6 of them. in my opinion there is no such thing as early DT's. Last game i played where the opponent went DT's straight up i had my third base by the time he had 6 of them. He had 6 when I had my third base as well. They weren't all sent at once though. He made more after the initial ones died. What I mean by "quick" is that he goes for DTs as a build, not for a desperation move, and that he had almost no other tech other than the ones needed for the Dark Shrine. With your patrolling strategy, when you attack, do you keep them patrolling or do you attack with the Hydralisks that are patrolling? |
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at bronze, going for a blind tech won't make a whole world of difference in most cases.. so you might want to get into the habit of going for blind overseers whenever you have enough, especially against toss.. an overseer is useful in any situation anw.. you might even be able to exploit a blind spot in ur opponents base and drop a changeling
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If I spot a blind spot I drop a Nydus, usually. Overlords are good enough for scouting because they have better vision, but a Changeling is useful when you can slip it into the army unnoticed. Contaminate is surprisingly useful, and I think it's underused. |
If I spot a blind spot I drop a Nydus, usually. Overlords are good enough for scouting because they have better vision, but a Changeling is useful when you can slip it into the army unnoticed. Contaminate is surprisingly useful, and I think it's underused. if ur afraid of dts, morph overseers.. simple.. and yes contaminate harassment is EXTREMELY fun to play and satisfying:} |
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Overseers are required. At least one in every base, plus one for scouting. No need to get ovie speed / ovie drop. They're fast enough already, and nydus can take care of drops.
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i wouldn't say they're required. they cost alot of gas imo. when those gas could be put to better use. why waste 100min/100gas when u just throw down a spore crawler? if it's with your army, than i agree it would be good to have it. in my opinion there is no such thing as early DT's. Last game i played where the opponent went DT's straight up i had my third base by the time he had 6 of them. actually you kinda CAN go early DTs. i'm unsure as how quick it was but the last time i checked it was bout 6:30-7mins. so.. thats pretty quick. if not scouted than you're screwed. |
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Looks like people are taking advice from the ask nGen forum
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in my opinion there is no such thing as early DT's. Last game i played where the opponent went DT's straight up i had my third base by the time he had 6 of them. He did it wrong then. I've been hit by DTs well before 3 base. The trick is just scouting, if you see the shrine get an overseer or a crawler and his tactic is countered, you can just drone up pretty safely. |
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Well as a precaution against surprise DT's (and anything else eg. Hellion run-by's) I have 2 Queens blocking my ramp to my main. This buys me some time in case something happens.
This delay then allows me to have army ready for a counter-attack (usually before the Queens die.) Try watching the Funday-Monday mass Queens by Day9 on youtube. That should give you an idea of how much Queens you'd have out at X time. |
Usually DTs don't hit before Lair, because they're so expensive, so I just play out early game like normal. |
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scout for early 2 gas, 2 gas means something fishy in toss build
then you should really sacrifice overlord and look for unit comp, around 5-6 min mark, and see heavy gas or not, e.g heavy stalker or heavy zealot, and ofcourse number of gates and twilight council or not, or even the dark shrine lolz :D if you see early dark shrine, get spore up if you see early robo, get spire if you see only gate ways, get hydra hydra is good vs robo/gateway play too, just dont let them get burnt to crisp by collosus and always scout around for that proxy pylon, killing that can mean an easy/easier victory |
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Edited by Masklin on 5/1/11 9:19 PM (PDT)
My problem with toss is the fact that they can do some really insane pushes(not lol4gate kiting roaches and lings and it's over) But the pushes that are at about 8-10 minute mark. Which is a mini gateway ball. Which is the point for me were I have stopped droning but don't have much of an army.
Last toss i vs'd pushed at roughly 10 mins, using a deployed warp prism to warp in units and his gateway units were +2 attack I actually pushed out with a strong enough force to crush him but it is incredible how fast protoss can reinforce and bordering IMBA when they can reinforce faster than you when you can when you are defending. Oh and he had chargelots, all on one base, sometimes I wonder if i'm doing something wrong when players out economy you on less basses, out tech you and outgun you. On topic, dt's if they catch you off guard it can be GG, they rip through anything, but are squishy and expensive. Suppose this is why toss uses such a limited spectrum of units, who cares about HT carriers and the like when warpgate units and colossus counter just about anything zerg has. And even if you win, to reinforce as fast they do, you better have a ton of resources spare. If you don't they will reinforce faster than you. Of course by the time you push out with your new army he will be able to FF block you while he reinforces. |
that should nvr be the case with zerg.. if you've stopped droning, your army is in production.. you should never allow for larvae build up unless ur at 200/200 |
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as a zerg player, I think dt and banshee are quite weak against zergs. As I play, i normally get evo chamber after pool, and 1 spore, 1 spine in my every base. I they have few dts or banshee, u have already had lair and morph to overseer. So, i never have problem with cloak. build chamber early can let u upgrade melee attack of zergling which makes huge difference.
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