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Just wondering if anyone has a good example of executing a Roach Ling timing attack. Is it viable against a 1 Base opponent or is it strictly for punishing FE-ing opponents? Please explain and educate us noobs if ur familiar with this timing attack.

Ive seen some videos on GomTV where Losira and Nestea did it perfectly, however the maps they do it on are so different to what we have on ladder.

From what i understand, the push usually consist of 5-6Roaches(Spend all ur gas after ling speed) and 1 round of lings(20?). It seems to work against Toss Forge FE very very well as there is a window where they have little to no units. Going forge FE also means that their sentry count would be low(No gas) as compared to a 3 gate Expand.

Ive tried this on ladder/custom a few times and the best push i can manage is at 645 with 5-6 roaches and 20 lings rallying to the opponent's base. Haven tried this in ZvZ though. ZvT is abit more complicated as i put down bling nest along with my roach warren and pump out some blings to go with the push. This set my push back to about 730(2gas) but i really prefer having blings to chase down marines or smash SCVs/Break wall.But the again quick tanks from Terran would demolish this push if we delay it for blings though.

PS:I have some reps on this timing attack now, although it sure isnt the most perfect one.

EDIT: The timings 645and 730 are based on me moving out of my base. I cant really say for actually engaging my opponent as it depends on map size too. Also, unless im getting a baneling nest, i have only about 22 drones mining while executing this build(including gas). Sometimes, i even go with only 1 queen since i dont have the minerals to use the larva anyways.

well there's a build somewhat like that specifically for ZvZ. i haven't had the time to try it. this link is the one i'm talking about for the ZvZ. ROOTdestiny say it's pretty much a sure win. lol


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=224227

i got tons of replays demonstrating this but im at work now. Basically make about 34 drones then next 8-10 larvae goes to roaches. Move your roaches out and inject, next round of larvae goes to pure speedlings. If you execute it perfectly, your speedlings and roaches will arrive at the toss base at the exact same time.

And I believe its only for opponents going 3gate expo. Forge expand will hold this off and for 1-base plays you should be teching and making spine crawlers.

i got tons of replays demonstrating this but im at work now. Basically make about 34 drones then next 8-10 larvae goes to roaches. Move your roaches out and inject, next round of larvae goes to pure speedlings. If you execute it perfectly, your speedlings and roaches will arrive at the toss base at the exact same time.

And I believe its only for opponents going 3gate expo. Forge expand will hold this off and for 1-base plays you should be teching and making spine crawlers.

34 drones is wayyyyy too much. If ur making taht many drones, ur looking to hit close to the 9min mark, 830 tops. By which time Protoss would have make 1-2 additional rounds of warp gate units. Not to mention the risk of him scouting this attack and putting up cannons. 2 Well placed cannons completely demolish this timing attack.

I have see some forum threads on TL.net that you should have around 25 drones on 2 bases for this build. Build 7-8 roaches then take all gas off gas and pump mass lings

05/25/2011 08:32 PMPosted by ILoveCoffee

I have see some forum threads on TL.net that you should have around 25 drones on 2 bases for this build. Build 7-8 roaches then take all gas off gas and pump mass lings

You are quite right, although im really wondering if 2 cannons for P or 2 bunkers of T will totally ruin this attack. Ive tried it on a T who had 2 Tank and 1 bunker when i reached his nat, didnt do as much dmg as id like. I suppose 2 cannons + some good FF will negate the push also?

I use a similar variation to destinys, 14pool 15gas, 1spine after pool unless I've scouted that I'm not getting ling/bane rushed, make 6 roaches asap, expand, drone to the optimal numbers (usually around 22 but sometimes I go a few over), usually aim for around 12-15 roaches plus all speedlings and off gas after the roaches and ling speed.

It seems to win against almost all zvz builds, when I have lost with it it's been to someone expecting it who goes 2base defensive roach, if both of us go for the same build I play defensive and usually come out ahead due to reinforcements. I've also beaten 2base muta with it, although I hear 1base muta will beat this build.

edit: I was talking about zvz, it is good in the other matchups but not as strong as it is in zvz

05/25/2011 10:31 PMPosted by Shortizz

You are quite right, although im really wondering if 2 cannons for P or 2 bunkers of T will totally ruin this attack. Ive tried it on a T who had 2 Tank and 1 bunker when i reached his nat, didnt do as much dmg as id like. I suppose 2 cannons + some good FF will negate the push also?

2 base roach/ling is more for punishing 3 gate expo, imo. Forge FE they will generally get the cannons up in time unless its 1 base roach. I tried it on the ladder and worked decently but still kinda sloppy play from me.

Against T you want to get a few more drones and add banelings into the mix since you want to take down bunkers as soon as possible and not let them repair. There is a roach/ling/baneling build on TL.net, it involves getting 15-20 roaches and banelings with speed and just flooding their base.The build was designed to beat T even when they have 2-3 siege tanks. Not sure how effective it is though.( Can't seem to find the thread)

Update: Ive had alot of success executing this build.

First i tried on a silver-gold ish account to refine the build and won all my 20 games. And then i skipped to my NA account which was recently demoted to diamond(Iplayed random on NA) and won most of my games against masters mostly.

Ive noticed that the key is to hit btw the 7-715 timing, anything later than that means 1-2 cannons or 1 more round of stalkers to deal with the push. If that happens, i simply poke around and try to find a building P cant defend without exposing himself. Most of the time, their wall is linked from their ramp to their Nexus so i just swing around with roaches and pick of probes and even Nexus wiht my lings waiting to swarm if he moves the sentries out.

Against T, i dropped a bling nest when my roach warren is 25% done. When your first round of roaches moves out(6-7 mostly), ur lings will have enuf time to catch up and morph into blings(6 tops). One master terran even raged at me and called me a newb All-in before he quit and den block me. Funny enough, i played him again 2 mins later and told him ''Im going to all-in again'' at the start of the game. So anyways, he decided not to move his 2nd OC into his nat and turtle in his main for abit more, with 1 bunker 3-4 marauders, couple of hellions and marines. I still roll-ed in once my blings got rid of the wall/bunker. Roaches and ling/bling just seem to do so well against a defending T without tanks.

Cant post replays cos Sc2replayed is being stupid :(

PS:I dont think this works in ZvZ and when playing against T, u wanna get a 2nd gas or take ur first one 2 drones before ur spawning pool.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225571

The ZvT build i was talking about.

It works really well against Toss, but that is if the opponent isn't anticipating it, or not a decent player

05/28/2011 03:08 AMPosted by Ikarus

It works really well against Toss, but that is if the opponent isn't anticipating it, or not a decent player

No, even when they know its coming it will still be difficult to hold off, unless they prepare blindly or overprepare in which they also put themselves behind. This build practically made 3 warpgate sentry expand useless and zergs have been crushing protoss with it even at pro-levels. Nobody who follows the current metagame trend uses 3 gate expand unless its map where its super easy to defend like shakuras.

on a map like shak i still prefer tunnelling roaches to shut down sentry expand, but the roach ling all in thing is a really great build to use when I get close spawn zvp on maps like shattered or metal or slags