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So we all know how the Zerg playstyle goes. The mechanics of Zerg encourage passive and defensive play early game while focusing mainly on our economy and droning up. It's hard to be aggressive when our viable T1 ranged assault unit has only 4 range and our other T1 units being comparatively weaker compared to the other races T1
However I was wondering if incorporating an aggressive style to the macro intensive mechanics of our Mighty Swarm would actually be feasible? It does not seem so, but I would like to know if it can be done. Is it possible to really bring the fight to our opponent's base or is the conceded map control enough for us?
Edited by Chase on 9/23/2011 5:39 AM PDT
Macro + Aggressive ==> Streaming banelings into enemy base?
In all seriousness though, in my opinion, the words "Macro" and "Aggressive" just don't work for Zerg early on. "Macro" and "Harrassment" is feasible, and aggressive strikes with a push backed by resources and larvae could work.
EDIT: All mistakes in reasoning here can be attributed to the fact that I am a noob and the main reason I posted here was because Chase asked someone in PRACBUD chat channel to post here to not feel lonely. =P
[TCP]Mathmick - Melee Map Design
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There's a Zergling... underground... There's a Zergling... underground... There's a Zergling, underground... We don't want Zerglings, underground...
Edited by TCPMathmick on 9/23/2011 5:54 AM PDT
it is quite possible to play both aggressive and macro with zerg in the same game imo , just not at the same time , one of the main reasons is that army units and drones come from the same thing , larvae
from the games i'v played when ever i'v gone aggressive i'v also had to do some damage to stay ahead since i'v giving up potential drones for it ,
the Zerg have some really good harass tactics as well , mutas , baneling drops on the mineral line , burrowed roaches , nydus worm ,
The zerg also have some really intense early timing pushes as well , on 2 hatches with larvae injects give serious production of units early game compared to other races as well which can be used very aggressively ,
is it feasible to be aggressive ? if you can deny the enemy his natural without falling far behind on econ , its it very well worth it , provided you can defend any counter aggression
Aggresive Zergs are generally very successful on ladder given how many greedy players expect a Zerg to be passive. People try to skimp on units against Zerg, even in ZvZ. Aggression is good because most people do not know how to handle Zerg aggression since it is not that common. An easy example is 10 pooling someone. I can say 80-90% of players will be behind just because they do not know how to respond properly.
from what ive found, its hard to get aggressive without sacrificing certain things (as everyone else has said, so i wont go into detail with that) but somethings i have seen LiquidRet do are fantastic, especially recently, he harasses with mutas (which is not uncommon) but aggressively attempts to counter-attack his opponent, making it very hard to move out as T or P. Drops can also be effective, especially 2 places at once.
If you don't already, i recommend watching Day9, he is very good at analysing gameplay from different pros. Especially LiquidRet vs MouzThorzain and ret vs naniwa, those games opened my eyes.
But if its aggression in the early game that you want, there are some 1/2 base timing pushes that can be effective, though somewhat cheesey haha.
my style is primarily based on sitting back and macroing, though i would love to incorporate some sort of aggression into it, in the late game at least, because thats what i have seen to be most effective haha. Macro, then be really aggressive! :D
4 lings = 2 larva, the minimum that you will need. That could be drones while you can still constantly build probes. Roaches < Stalkers before burrow/speed.
It is difficult to find, or even make a choke that allows 4 zealots to engage 16 zerglings without getting surrounded, with the exception of your own base. If you forcefield they will just run away. Protoss just can't play aggressive early to mid until we get blink stalkers.
Thats why you have this thing called inject larvae.
Roaches < Stalkers before burrow/speed.
Fully upgraded roach > Fully upgraded stalkers
Some great points in this thread that have made my view of the potential of Zerg slightly different. Thanks everyone for your input!
you kinda got sacrifice something all the time -> drones, army, tech
I agree with this soooo much. It seems the main focus of this thread is about our larva usage and choosing which units to make and when to make them.
Uhh... Forcefields? Sentry's are Super good and are effective all game unless the Zerg player gets Ultralisks, which is uncommon as Broodlords are a much better option
The +1 Attack for Protoss ground units allows Zealots to 2 shot Zerglings, allowing 4 Zealots to slaughter 16 Zerglings Easily
16 Zerglings = 8 Eggs
This is huge for the Zerg player and he is put Immediately behind because of this. Those 16 Zerglings could have been 8 drones which equals ~330 minerals per minute.
Although this is true cost effectively, Stalkers are so much more versatile then roaches.
Julyzerg is also extremely aggressive but he just has this instinct that knows when he can be aggressive and win with it. he is scary
He is the zerg god of war =P
I think it is possible to be aggressive, but your aggression (like most aggression) has to be worth what you put into it, with zerg having larvae as a resource on top of the other resources, its best to think "I did this, how much larvae did I use to do it that could have been drones, was the damage worth the cost?" You can be aggressive but your aggression has to have done something worthwhile or you will be behind by heaps because you missed out on some drone production
There was a 15 hatch / 15 pool 7 roach 3rd expo aggression I saw on YouTube, from DRG, I think.
EDIT: Here it is. Tell me what you guys think. Noob friendly? Too situational? Not practical against X build?
Edited by tFcZFalcone on 10/1/2011 3:25 PM PDT
I've seen that build, looks pretty sick. I reckon It could work if your opponent knows you expanded, may catch him off guard.
Its very simple.
If you use 7 or 8 larvae to create attacking units, and you don't do enough damage to warrant 7 or 8 less drones than you've made a bad decision. If you can consistently do 7 or 8 drones worth of damage than the investment is well worth it.
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