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when going against protoss how do you tell the difference between these 2 builds ? 4gate means you have to cut drones and get units faster , while 3gate/fe means you get to macro up abit more
mistaking one of these for the other either puts you behind in economy or gets you killed outright ,
how do you recognize the difference ?
More sentries = 3 gate expand.
Poke up his ramp, and see if he's one of those players who leaves all his units at his wall. If you see multiple sentries, that's your queue to drone. If you see more than 1 stalker, be a bit suspicious.
When you send your 6 minute overlord, see what shoots it down. If there are 2 or more stalkers shooting it down, assume 4 gate until a nexus goes down.
If it's just sentries shooting it down, then drone up.
If he's one of those players who's good at hiding their units, then your overlord might get a lucky scout on his gateways. If it doesn't see them, then cry. (to be serious, you need to get about half units, half drones. That's just the cost.)
That too I suppose, but personally, I generally don't use that as the best indicator. There can be slight variations of 3 gates and 4 gates, so I generally look at sentry counts more than anything.
It's also kind of annoying when I'm playing someone that's bad and decides to chrono their warpgate non-stop for a 3 gate expand, and I overproduce units. That happened a while ago, but it still gets me.
Use whatever works, I guess ^_^
"That's the problem with players like this. They don't actually don't know how to play, so it's hard to predict what they're doing." - IdrA
uhh if he fast expands he has a freaking giant NEXUS sitting in an extremely easy to spot location...... Am I the only one getting this?
Also 4gate is ridiculously easy to own. It pretty much relies on A) the probe getting out unspotted to drop the pylon. B) The 3 units produced before the first warp cycle to escort said probe.. Which are also ridiculously easy to kill...
If he manages to get a pylon up near your base good on him, provided you intercept those 3 units he can only warp in 4 units at a time. which is once again, ridiculously easy to kill...
The strength of the 4gate comes with the initial 7 unit push, or 11 unit push. If he can't group together these initial units his 4gate push is significantly weaker.
Edited by FaDeRockstar on 10/8/2011 7:42 AM PDT
Except you need to decide on what to spend alot of larva on before the nexus goes down. If it's a four gate, then I need to make units to intercept the probe. If he's three gate expanding, I need all those larva to be drones.
If I sit there and do nothing until the nexus goes down, I've left alot of idle larva doing nothing before I decide what to do with it. If I know what he's doing based on the gateway and sentry count, then I can spend my larva continuously throughout the early game.
Agreed. Even if the probe and initial units get out, a good amount of units or spines will stop it cold.
Edited by Derelith on 10/8/2011 2:45 PM PDT
I've always used the amount of energy on the nexus as my indicator.
either way, if in doubt: get units in preparation for a 4 gate (get lots of roaches, no spine crawlers). If you are mistaken I've found that you can add a round of lings to your already decent army and go do a lot of damage/win the game/delay his expansion.
Not necessarily... especially on 1v1 maps like Xel naga caverns where expanding is more difficult for Toss due to multiple openings a lot of players actually get lots of sentries with zealots for not the 3 gate expand... but for the 5 gate all in!!
basically an all in with no stalkers just zealots and sentries can get u much more units...
watch the replay of HD starcraft or Husky starcraft (cant remember which one of them it was...) he posted a few days ago...
Edited by Paichere on 10/8/2011 6:59 PM PDT
With no stalkers, spines will stop zealot/sentry dead. Even on Xel'naga I could react to a push out in time. I can just use my lings to delay him for a bit.
yea absolutely! but here's the deal... it depends where you placed your spine and how you play it... (am really gonna have to show that replay but my internet is over the limit and cant go to youtube and find the actual video lol later hopefully)
basically this is how it goes, with the tons of sentries there is enough FF to recreate the wall of China Toss style, a protoss can simply block any battle between ure unit and his for a few second ok (its taking place in front of ure expansion), sentries create this artificial wall between you and your original base giving him enough time to walk up the ramp and than block the entrance of this ramp with additional FF while destroying ure main with zealot....
i ll get the replay when my internet get back in a few days ok :-D
Sounds neat, but it also sounds like you just caught the zerg player out of position to walk up his ramp. Losing position for one second against sentry attacks can lose a zerg their game. That's just how things are, though. It is possible to get around it.
I'd love to see the replay. :)
lol, cuz you're not chronoing on probes because you stop at 20
so you have energy for warp tech, it's a very good thing to scout for
strongly hints 4 gate and can even be a possible proxy
i dont think many people use the energy bar as an obvious thing to look for when it is actually quite helpful
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