Topic
Hard to beat protoss that macros fast :(
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I have this problem of fighting protoss that macros really fast. To give an example, he went for 3 gate stargate, and got out 2 voidrays and 5 pheonixes and has map control. I got out hydras on 2 base to defend that and eventually got my third when i saw his 2nd base went down. I started to drone up and face the continuous pressure against those air units. He kept those units alive pretty well ( as you know hydras cant move fast and around cliffy terrains) and he transitioned into robo. I KNEW he was going to go for that and i tried attacking early when he only had 1 collosi but the air units are just too strong as a backup ( even though my roach hydra ball was 2 2 and he was 0 2 ) he successfully defended my attack and i was behind. I drone up and took extra bases and still cant win a collosus stalker sentry phoenix voidray ball. HOW THE HELL CAN ZERG BEAT THAT !@#$?! Corrupters die to Vrs , mutas die to phoenixes.. All ground dies to collosus as they continue to grow in numbers and i cant stop that. I tried multi prong attacks but his reinforcement was REALLY Alot and whenever i try to do that he just counter attacks and i loses. Thanks for anyone actually read the whole thread. Help please!!
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Alright Point taken thanks.
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Have you tried getting some mutas and corruptors? That will shut down any air play pretty hard, unless he's pumping phoenix hard with the range upgrade in which case your hydras will do fine. |
Don't suggest mutas cuz of the new phoenix upgrade they can just pump phoenix/stalker and win. |
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I take it i can't play into late game, and i just found a really nice army that can counter that but its really late into the game by then and i might be dead already. Ultralisks will do perfect against that army.. Except its expensive and takes long to get :(
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I agree with DBRiMatt, get queens and spores, dont rush to hyrda tech, just get more queens and spore crawlers, and then keep droning. Ideally if you can you want to keep droning till you have 3 fully saturated bases (but keep scouting to see what hes doing). Then build an army of roach, hydra and corrupter. If he has void rays and colossus you need at least 10 corrupters. You also want to keep up on your upgrades, make sure you have two evo chambers and if you can start range and Armour upgrades before you even start building roaches. Try take the battles to him, in late-game pvz you want the battles to happen on your opponents side of the map, so it gives you more time to remax. I you can keep 3 mining bases at all times you should be able to win by just continuously re maxing. Oh and also in the late game you want about 5 bases mining gas.
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Mass mutalisks is the obvious answer, but tbh I hate using that strat even though I'm probably slightly favored.
If you go the roach route, you really have to know your timings, if they stay on 2 base, you just turtle your 3 bases and defend whatever you can with roach/lings/infestors/corrupters. If they take a 3rd then you have an option, take a 4th base and tech up or show aggression. To be honest though if they take an early third you almost have to show aggression, because you are most likely going to fight there 200/200 army with bad units like roaches, and being caught in a position like that is horrible. Void Ray and phoenix can be handled with just queens, and if you scout that they are committing to a heavy amount then you should be able to do a timing attack with hydra/infestor/corrupter... obviously not all those units at once but they are your anti air options. |
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Edited by nGenXeen on 2/27/12 6:28 AM (PST)
3gate stargate on one base is not fast macro, it's nigh all-in investment. You should have defended with queen/spores rather than teching hydras and ended up massively ahead. You beat colossus/stalker/sentry/phoenix by having infestors, mass roaches, and broodlords - or by showing up with 16 mutas when he has 5 phoenixes and slapping his economy repeatedly.
Phoenixes die to corruptors, VRs die to mutas, and colossi die to both. What's your point? |
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1) Macro faster and up your game mechanics.
2) You need to watch your replay and see at what timings your player attacks. I doubt with 1 base he can produce off that much stuff without hurting his tech an economy. Spores and queens the way to go if you're defending because its cheap. 3) I won't mind doing hydras, but because they are so costly you need to be doing something with them other than using them to guard your drone line. As long has he keeps your army in your base, he's safe to slowly do his stuff. So if you want to tech to hydras, you need to push waay earlier to punish him for a 1 base econ. I seriously seriously think maybe number 1) is the best way to go. Zerg isn't designed to fall back in macro. So many players build mutas anyway even with phoenix presence, because at equal macro skill, you can have more mutas eating them up and still do harassment. |
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Edited by Graboid on 2/28/12 9:56 PM (PST)
I highly suggest you learn the protoss openings if you don't already. Play the race and actually get good at each one.
4 gate: Know the timings (3 extra gateways are typically build at 4:30 minutes. Attack shortly after 7 minutes). Forge Fast-expand: Easy to scout. Know a strategy to immediately respond with. You are not safe, you need to CATCH UP. Either expand to a 3rd or try to end it with roaches or nydus. 3 gate robo: An early robo followed by 2 gateways. An observer will always scout you so an earlier lair is better. You won't be able to flank him if he has good observer scouting. These are the 3 main strategies I've used again zerg and it's helped me understand the basic weaknesses of protoss. You say that Mutas are weak against protoss? Blizzard has stated that they are OP, which is why they gave Phoenix a +1 ranged attack upgrade a few days ago. A toss player cannot go phoenix to counter mutas for the same reason a terran can't go mass vikings to counter mutas. Technically they are stronger but the ground army suffers to much and you get overwhelmed/can't expand. Mutas are unique because they are small and can attack both air and ground. You can't snipe buildings with pheonix and Voidrays are too resource heavy/slow. |
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hello, im a zerg myself so i'd like to jion some zerg discussion. first of all, plz don't try those strat where they sugest rushes, that will not work every time and i believe what u r looking for is a reliable answer to go against tosses that goes stargate and macro fast right?
so here is my thought, first, when u scout stargate, it is really important that u know how many stargate he got, if two, then u need hydras, and roch hydra will give u a very small timing window to beat him before he transition to robo, but never think u will always get him, so expan in mulit location while u attacking with roch hydra is really important. if he got only 1 stargate, then hydra is not needed, to be clear, don't go hydra when u only scout noly one stargate plz, u def those three bases u already have (if u only have two, then u may want to watch some replays and change ur built order, 2 bases against ffe toss just do not work) with queens and spores (even if u got 4 queens and u only see 2 voids, dont chase those voids, if 3 phonixe show up, u will lose those queens and lose the game very easily) untill infestor comes out then u double expan and drone to 90+ span and spore the !@#$ out of him, go for the late game from here. 2 very important thing while u defending, 1st, even if u only see air units, u dont want to lose ground control, keep ur roches, because a good protoss will use forward pylons to warp in units to do a two side attack. 2nd, keep drone while u under air presure, so once u can deal with the air units, u will have the eco u need to crash him. so if u want to know how to defeat a protoss that macro fast, it's easy, u just stay cool and macro faster, any zerg player has to admit that zerg has macro advantage than the other 2 races, so don't got out macro if u are a zerg player, if u did, then it is not the strat that went wrong, it's the basics. |
