Timing attacks have existed since the dawn of RTS games. In reality, it doesnt even JUST apply to RTS, in some rare forms it can apply to other multiplayer games also. Exactly =P Brood War: I HAS LURKERS, and you has no observer: GOGOGO Warcraft 3: Bloodlust is done GOGOGOGO Even Civilization has timing attacks: (CATAPULT is done GOGOGO!) Modern Warfare 2: Used chopper gunner, GOGOGOGO GET THE FLAG Maybe I'll add this to the original post |
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Edited by ACTIVILLAIN on 10/25/10 6:18 PM (PDT)
Brood War: I HAS LURKERS, and you has no observer: GOGOGO I played only casual games actually. Yes I know lurkers vs Protoss aren't the most popular ZvP build but it happens. Sometimes you get a protoss who gets late detection and you can punish that accordingly with lurkers |
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I can't click edit for whatever reason, but I just read your "guide" lollllllllll..........
I'd like to quote a friend's reaction to your thread: "but thats like calling attacking someone while they are reloading in an fps a "timing attack" Chess: You has not castled your king! GOGOGO GET DA CHECKMATE!" You fail to understand what a timing attack is. A timing attack is a build designed to have a game winning advantage at a specific point in the game vs specific builds (e.g. Sparks terran SCBW which was essentially 3rax 1base with +1 weps or armour popping just before lurker tech or muta tech was ready. The idea here was to kill your opponent in this very specific window when you have a sizable military advantage against an opponent using one of the rather popular 3hatch tech builds.) . A vague idea of attacking when you have more units/an upgrade pops is wrong and will mislead lower level players into playing badly. What you do at each of these windows when your army will be stronger for a period of time is assert map control and force your opponent to forgo economy in favor of army production for a short period of time in order to gain a small advantage. You do not have to attack their base to do this and in some cases you don't need to even leave your own. It's pretty disappointing that such an inaccurate "guide" is graced with a sticky. |
Lurkers aren't popular vs protoss?! LOL? Lurkers failing to break a forge FE ever would however be a reason why "fast lurker" isn't a timing attack. ^^ I meant *Aren't as popular as mutalisks =P And goddamn did JulyZerg make Mutalisks Popular Are you satisfied now? =] |
I like the way ACTIVILLAIN delivers stuff in a funny manner. ^__^ I like the way you like me ^__^ Forum love +1 |
I can't click edit for whatever reason, but I just read your "guide" lollllllllll.......... This may be true but not 100% accurate. You can walk into a game and say to yourself 'This is when Ill attack with this build here and now' and call it a timing build and attack, but thats a very small mindset. Most pros walk into the game saying that, but adapt during game play and do MANY timing attacks (and when I say many I dont mean like, 10, I mean say, 4 or 5). They are small windows and are mostly harrasing during early game. The all in timing attack is when you have your window and try to keep it open as long as possible to maximum advantage, a timing attack is purely to GIVE you an advantage to either do another attack or have time to tech up. There is no X build against Y build that is considered a timing attack unless you know every move your opponent will make. There is either a standard build or a deviated build in which a timing attack can be formed. |
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Edited by Torpid on 10/25/10 8:12 PM (PDT)
Most pros walk into the game saying that, but adapt during game play and do MANY timing attacks (and when I say many I dont mean like, 10, I mean say, 4 or 5). They are small windows and are mostly harrasing during early game. No you're straight up wrong. Timing attacks are specific builds which aim to hit at specific times. What you're thinking of is not a timing attack. LOL I just checked your rank, that explains why you know nothing I guess. You are just calling any attack a "timing attack". That is incorrect. Harassing with one reaper is not a timing attack. You haven't really even made a point. You've just said that I'm wrong and then written some garbage which is apparently supposed to convince me that you're right. |
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Edited by mky on 10/25/10 10:25 PM (PDT)
i guess most of the examples you cited are more of tech exploit than timing attacks. from what i understand, timing attacks are more like having to attack/harrass before the enemy benefits from a tech or an expansion.
correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't they more like 4gate on a fastex zerg marine siege push on a 111 terran mm pressure before thermal lance upgrade? |
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Although Torpid's rebuttal is very blunt, I believe he is correct. A "timing attack" is a push at a specific time in the game before an enemy has a specific tech/ unit, usually capitalising on a weakness in their build (i.e. rushing a Zerg before he manages to get his spire done and flood the map with mutas.). Attacking a Zerg as Protoss when you have +1 weapons and a bunch of Zealots is just an attack..... unless it is designed to get there before a hydra or muta build...
I think alot of casters throw around the terminology incorrectly, which further ads to the confusion for many people. |
i guess most of the examples you cited are more of tech exploit than timing attacks. from what i understand, timing attacks are more like having to attack/harrass before the enemy benefits from a tech or an expansion. I'd disagree with the last one, but yeah these are really good sc2 examples. I still think like a BW player and so only BW examples came to mind lol. Korean 4wg PvP is another example of a timing attack. It is designed to work only in a specific window, and outside of this window it is borderline worthless. |
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i suppose the use of the term 'timing attack' is thrown around much more loosely now than in the past, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a cool thread, because 'timing attack' or no, these are very important concepts to understand as newer players, I'm still learning and trying to understand all the best times to push out or defend based on what is happening in the game.
So thanks a.villain nice post :) |
i suppose the use of the term 'timing attack' is thrown around much more loosely now than in the past, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a cool thread, because 'timing attack' or no, these are very important concepts to understand as newer players, I'm still learning and trying to understand all the best times to push out or defend based on what is happening in the game. I personally find that this thread is incredibly misleading and will lead to bad play. Listen do day9's audio commentary on winning with an advantage if you want to actually understand these concepts. This guide is terrible and should not be stickied. It seems to suggest that you should be attacking regularly, not merely applying pressure and also completely fails to recognize what a timing attack is. This guide is too flawed to help people at the lowest level of play. So mods, please unsticky/close this thread. It's totally worthless and should not be in the limelight. |
i suppose the use of the term 'timing attack' is thrown around much more loosely now than in the past, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a cool thread, because 'timing attack' or no, these are very important concepts to understand as newer players, I'm still learning and trying to understand all the best times to push out or defend based on what is happening in the game. I do listen to day9 and already understand the concepts, I'm liking this post cause he explains it in a clear way for people that may not understand. It is not suggesting anything specific it is using examples to explain a CONCEPT. its a very helpful way of explaining to newer players who stay inside their base without really knowing when they can push out and what's going on in the match. I know I had this problem when I started playing. So stop trying to criticise useful advice like this, there's plenty worse threads out there |
